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What's Your Beef?

And to Quote Jeff Spicoli...
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By Carol Einarsson | 07/06/2011
Category: What's Your Beef?
 

I'm confused....first you JEER the existence of "team orders", then you JEER Jeff Gordon for, what you believe to be, his refusal to follow those alleged "team orders". Huh?
-A

Yeah, I think I'll echo "A" here in that you probably shouldn't jeer teem orders only to jeer Jeff Gordon for not following them. Unless that was tongue in cheek sarcasm. I can't tell.
-Q

I agree with "A" and "Q" regarding your apparent flip flopping regarding team orders. If you are for them then the Jeer to Jeff was warranted, if not then why did you write that article yesterday. In the words of Jeff Spicoli, "make up your mind dude, is he going to $#@% or is he going to kill us".
-B

Okay, here's the deal folks. I wasn't ever in the military, so my first-hand knowledge is limited, but I do know this: An order is an order. And when given one, those who are subservient to the command are to follow the order. Failure to do so breaks down the whole team.

So while I disagree with the orders in the first place, I have to also disagree with a member of the team who seems compliant, then goes off with a rogue solo decision of his own.

Sure, this is a race and not a squadron of soldiers, but the idea is the same. If there are orders, you follow the orders.

Now since this ISN'T a squadron of soldiers, let's shine a softer light on it. If Jeff Gordon wasn't comfortable with the "second fiddle" role, then he should have made that known on Wednesday at HMS. Stand up and say so.

When the idea is still on paper, that's the time to say how much better it would be for Pepsi to be in the Coke Victory Lane. That's when he should make his case that the 10 extra bonus points are what he's after. That he's a racer, and he's taking home the trophy himself. He can agree to help Mark in the two-car deal, but he expects help in return.

If he disagrees, and in this case I assume he had a voice, let it be known before the whole team is counting on you with five to go. That's not really the time to say no.

That's all I'm sayin'. It makes perfect sense to me to disagree with the team orders, but also to disagree with someone not following the orders.
-Carol

~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Carol, Carol, Carol. You really have convinced yourself that HMS is a corrupt bunch, and it must REALLY bother you that one of your favorites, Mark Martin, is part of the organization.
-I

If that were the case, wouldn't I have been quite happy to see team orders that were reportedly in place to favor Mark Martin?
-Carol

~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Sounds like someone isn't a Hendrick fan and therefore is trying to stir up trouble within the organization. I actually find it humorous that people think they can disrupt an organization such as Hendrick Motorsports. I remember when the media actually reported what happened (you know facts) and didn't conjure up and edit the facts in order to prove their own point.
-B

I don't know what "conjuring up" you think was done, when Lance McGrew told Ralph Sheheen about the team orders. This was not a case of something playing out on the track and the media speculating about what a team had planned. The team stated what the plan was, and the media reported it. If you think Ralph Sheheen conjured it all up, take it up with TNT.
-Carol

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Comments:
qhorque
07/06/2011 10:19 am (1)
Didn't the pre-race show have someone say the deal was that Jeff was likely guaranteed a spot in the chase so the "team" thing to do would be to help push Martin to victory which should help him get a wild-card spot. Winning the race wouldn't help Jeff any more so it made sense to help get the rest of the team into the Chase.

That's why I believe, if your speculation is correct, that Jeff would have agreed to what are referred to as "team orders" although I see it more as a business decision likely made amongst the entire top level players of the four drivers, four crew chiefs, Rick Hendrick, and perhaps the team managers.

I'm pretty sure Jeff probably has some vested interest in the Hendrick organization over and above just getting paid as a driver so he wants the entire team to be successful and this is a reasonable way to accomplish this. So sure he'd agree to it. No reason to *say* he agreed only to secretly change his mind on the track because he was not happy with the agreement. Jeff has never seemed to be that two-faced or immature.

After that, I really don't think he decided on the track to stop "following orders" and the situation really was that they were pretty far back and needed to get to the front more than performing a switch at that point which likely would have indeed pushed them both farther behind. It really does not seem like he went back on his agreement. I take his statements at face value here.

We should remember that your article is stating your opinion and speculation of what might have transpired in closed rooms and in someone else's brain. Like I tell my wife when she tells me what is in my mind - "Did you ask me or did you just come up with that on your own? If it's just your assessment and conclusion then you can't state it as fact."

In this case, I'm not sure your take on it is entirely accurate. I don't think they were *orders* insomuch as they were an agreed to team plan and I just can't buy into your take on how things were discussed before the race and decided during the race. Unless you actually ask Hendrick, Gordon, Martin, etc. what really went down, it's just an opinion.
allisong
07/06/2011 10:57 am (2)
Two points I want to make...

1. After Talledega, when Jr. pushed Jimmie to the win, much joking was done about how Chad & Jimmie "owed" one to Jr. and "next time it's Jimmie's turn to push" and all that. I believe it was in that spirit that Lance made his remarks to Ralph. I also agree with qhorque above, in that it was obviously apparent to everyone within HMS who would benefit most from a win. I hardly think anyone would demand of Jeff that he "throw" a race, under consequences of...what, exactly? Are they gonna dock his pay?

2. But let's play along and pretend that someone had made such a demand. I suppose then that Jeff should have made the switch when Mark wanted him to, let 8-12 cars pass them, and finish mid-teens or so, just so long as Mark finished in front of Jeff? I think HMS would rather see both of them up front where they were headed, rather than finishing further back.
VirginiaRed
07/06/2011 11:01 am (3)
I thought the whole point of this column was an armchair review of the race. Therefore it is all opinion and not reporting facts. I also don't see a Hendrick bias because Hendrick was the one who talked about it. If Gibbs had announced team orders, we would be talking about Gibbs.

It seems to me that everyone should be doing their best to win, and if along the way you can help a team mate, then do it. But if helping a team mate means neither of you win, that is just dumb.
highbanks24
07/06/2011 11:38 am (4)
In my opinion, You have taken second hand information(from Ralph Sheheen), a two or three second sound bite(between Jeff and Mark), your dislike for all things Jeff Gordon, and let your imagination get the best of you. Its your fairy tale opinion, and as Jerry Seinfield would say, there is nothing wrong with that.

Jeff clearly explained the events that transpired toward the end of the race, and there is zero proof that he is lying or that he intentionally aborted the supposed top secret mission of pushing Mark to the win. Seriously, this is ridiculous.
allisong
07/06/2011 1:27 pm (5)
@ VirginiaRed

I agree that this column is all opinion - but look at this week's headline - "Hendrick Team Orders Confirmed". Does that not read like it is a statement of fact?

But that's the thing - nobody "announced team orders". The whole attitude of who would be pushing whom, and who owes one to whom was all tongue-in-cheek, but is being taken here as a direct order to, if need be, pull over and let Mark pass as they come to the checkers.
mrclause
07/06/2011 2:31 pm (6)
Hey Carol, you sorry yet about this topic?:) I can't believe the flack you are taking over this. The whole deal stands on a quote by a team member reported on by the media. Why not everybody jump on Sheheen or the team member? All I see Carol doing is making a statement on reported facts and what she and us saw and heard during the broadcast. I don't see her bashing any one person, she's stating her opinions on what she saw and heard and we had the same information to form our opinions. Y'all had no problem stating your opinions and on her site.

She didn't like what she saw and heard and simply stated her thoughts and feelings. Along with Carol I despise even the thought of team orders. With five teams controlling nearly half the field in any given race, they already have too much control of the outcome. I choose not to let team owners and drivers decide who is going to be put in the winners circle. I demand a real race. When it takes two cars together to pass, to win, somehow that's just not racing! I want to get back to the days of drivers coming out of nowhere on the last lap or two and RACING for the win. I've been a fan of Marks for many, many years but if it takes two or four cars together to get him a win then that's just not racing.

Ease up on Carol, think instead of how many times shes made you chuckle. And let her have her opinion on things just as she's let you do on her space. She's one of the good guys!
highbanks24
07/06/2011 3:17 pm (7)
@ mrclause

This is Carol's site, how can we not let her have her opinion? lol

I think Carol is well aware that when she puts out her opinion, there will be those who disagree with it.

I do agree with your comment... "I've been a fan of Marks for many, many years but if it takes two or four cars together to get him a win then that's just not racing."

I do not like the two car draft form of racing at all.

Bill B
07/06/2011 3:32 pm (8)
Thanks Mr Hand, for leaving my words on the board for all of your classes to see. ;)
qhorque
07/06/2011 4:10 pm (9)
"Ease up on Carol"?!?!

I think she's shown many times before she can dish out and take whatever there is so she's definitely capable of taking care of herself.

Besides, a public discussion board automatically places one in the cross hairs of whatever goofballs are out there and she surely ought to understand that by now. Plus full moderator administrative control allows her to handle just about any situation and I think she's doing just fine.

Besides, she felt strongly enough to create a targeted specific article on this subject to answer her critics and some of those critics have continued in the discussion which is the whole point of a comments section!

Ease up on Carol? Might as well just not read her columns if I thought she couldn't take a reasonable discussion.
BrianInFlorida
07/06/2011 7:59 pm (10)
Al I can say it is crystal clear who the HMS homers are. lol

I shake my head at the comments collectively excusing the "team orders". It is what it is and there's no closing the box.

Just all mad that HMS will be forever associated and THEY tarnished the image. No one else.

Second hand information? LOL wow.

I was under the impression that there were 43...err...17 cars out there going for one spot.

Anything less is pathetic, period.

No matter the team.






qhorque
07/06/2011 8:26 pm (11)
As if Hendrick is the only team who discusses strategy with their drivers and crew chiefs!

I don't see how anyone could possibly think that Hendrick is the only organization that has team strategies in place. They tarnished the image? Hardly.
Carol
07/06/2011 8:41 pm (12)
And thank YOU, Bill B for the title. :-) Sometimes that's the hardest part for me, but how could I pass up a Spicoli reference? LOL

C

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